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View Full Version : CRF230f omfg who designed these things?


rideo
22-09-2011, 07:35 PM
The daughters 230 has been blowing smoke on start up for a while, since we got it actually, i blame the Brazilian manufacture rather than design issues so i decided to chuck some rings 'n stem seals in to fix it up.
With no manual to go by i figured how hard can it be so purchased some bits n pieces to have a go at it, i also decided it would be a good opportunity to show the lad some mech stuff.

So we head out to the shed this arvo full of intent to get it down to barrel off and new rings fitted as step 1.

Strip all the usual bits like set and tank etc, set the engine timing to TDC,
i pulled the nuts etc and go to remove the rocker cover...the #$%! thing is hitting the frame and needing another 10-15mm clearance to do the job.
no biggie i thought, i will remove some engine mount bolts and it should drop just enough to make it happen.

Yeh right^BGHD^BGHD

I ended up having to pull all mount bolts thinking i could tilt the motor enough...hahahaha sucker nup no gunna happen i gotta pull the WHOLE FKN MOTOR OUT just so as i can remove the rocker cover^BGHD^frt^cens^sbx:mad::violent-s
Ok, take a breath, this is supposed to be educating the boy don't go losing ya nut no need to learn him bad stuffs...so i calm down a bit, appraise the situation..the situation sucks bad.

I go to pull the sprocket cover off thinking that's the best move to get the chain off, then i had the brainwave of just breaking the chain seeing as it's only one link and to pull the front cog i need to undo heaps of crap.
Cant see a joining link, it must be behind the cover, ok i will rotate the wheel to get it showing, i spin the wheel, some #$%^! has put the fkn thing in gear, there goes TDC and the cam jumps out of its seats ^BGHD
F ark.
Grab a beer.

Oh well too late now just pull the chain.
Hang on, there's no %$#@! joiner!!!
Gaawd, what a waste of time and i've lost engine timing for nothing.
Spin the wheel back, timing mark is nowhere to be seen, swear a bit more.
Bite the bullet and pull the front cog off, there that's done...more swearing for the hell of it.

Look at the engine and realise that to get at the cam chani adjuster the starter motor has to come off, never pulled one off before not sure what's involved but presume the worst, this was the only break i got it only took 5 minutes to remove it.

Remove last engine mount bolt, it has weight on it so is a total bitch to get out.
More swearing.
Finally everything is undone and i can pull motor out.

Motor is now on the bench waiting for further attentions.

F ark me the dolt that designed this should have been left to plough his allotment with his donkey and farrow and fetch water from his well, a simple ring replacement on a simple farm bike and i gotta tear the $#%@! thing down to a bare frame.

Gawddamn.

-RinGo-
22-09-2011, 07:40 PM
At least its reliable because it's a Honda... oh wait a second... ;onf^lol GOOD LUCK!

Junky
22-09-2011, 07:47 PM
Sounds like your having a crap time, I'm feeling your pain. I had enough drama with the rear spring pre load adjustment. Had to pull the bastard out as the steel adjusting nuts would not budge, and that's brand new.

I think they are the 80's XL200 engine arnt they, if so maybe have a look at an XL manual?

TonyH
22-09-2011, 09:10 PM
Haha pissa Daz.

That'd drive me phukn mental!

geoffyboy
22-09-2011, 09:16 PM
If you want a manual rideo. Let me know I have a pdf of it.


It says in the manual...

Service Info.
General:

* The following components require engine removal for service
-Camshaft
-Cylinder head/valves
-Cylinder/piston
-Crankshaft
-Transmission.


Glad I never had to pull apart Coises....

PS... Gotta love the non honda people in here.. :)

crofty
23-09-2011, 07:34 AM
Do you want a box of tissues with that?

disco
23-09-2011, 08:44 AM
I feel for ya ROBR... that's shithouse. Fun bikes aren't compeition bikes in many ways besides performance I think :(

dalboy
23-09-2011, 08:52 AM
ha, sounds like a carnt of a thing. my mum's got one and it hasnt got enough k's on it to need any work (maybe never will, done 700km's in 3 years), but i'll be the one to work on it when it does.....

oldboy
23-09-2011, 09:08 AM
Paging RED1 !psm

noidea
23-09-2011, 09:18 AM
If you want a manual rideo. Let me know I have a pdf of it.




I'd be interested in that..

Can trade for beer!

TonyH
23-09-2011, 09:40 AM
You'll need one cause you're a shit mechanic anyway :p

Team200
23-09-2011, 11:13 AM
While you are at it, you might as well change the clutch plates...:rr

Once apon a time an exceptionally lovely lady let me ride her 230 fo the day so I could ride Batemans with Amber while she baby sat our son. I had an absolute ball on it, however I fried the clutch on the poor little thing. So we went to the trouble of obtaining a replacement clutch kit so she could ride it the next day, only to find that the clutch is installed arse about, inside out and there may have even been a special tool required. It was all very confusing and in the end Longo and I gave up in disgust and decided to drink more beer instead.
They look so simple from the outside...

Owen.

disco
23-09-2011, 11:32 AM
lovely lady

They look so simple from the outside...

..decided to drink more beer instead.

Owen.

You're not the first bloke to make that mistake Owen:tick:tick^ton

TonyH
23-09-2011, 11:40 AM
Happens to the best of us ^lol

RED1
23-09-2011, 12:02 PM
While you are at it, you might as well change the clutch plates...:rr

Once apon a time an exceptionally lovely lady let me ride her 230 fo the day so I could ride Batemans with Amber while she baby sat our son. I had an absolute ball on it, however I fried the clutch on the poor little thing. So we went to the trouble of obtaining a replacement clutch kit so she could ride it the next day, only to find that the clutch is installed arse about, inside out and there may have even been a special tool required. It was all very confusing and in the end Longo and I gave up in disgust and decided to drink more beer instead.
They look so simple from the outside...

Owen.



You must mean the lock nut on the end of the crank that needs a 4 prong tool to undo that most honda singles have had since year dot!
Like posties, minitrails, etc. :tick

Team200
23-09-2011, 12:34 PM
Sounds about right, cant quite remember, it was a long time ago and I was 1/2 pissed. Do you need to remove the crank lock-nut to replace the clutch plates?

Owen.

RED1
23-09-2011, 01:26 PM
Sounds about right, cant quite remember, it was a long time ago and I was 1/2 pissed. Do you need to remove the crank lock-nut to replace the clutch plates?

Owen.


You have a centrifugal oil filter on the end of the crank and you can't get the clutch off without removing it first, and you should clean out the filter every year or so as it fills up with hard crud from the plates and oil.

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww184/xr650r5/IMG-108.jpg

Team200
23-09-2011, 01:30 PM
AArrgghh, it's all coming back to me now, I need a beer.

As someone said previously, lucky they are so reliable, coz working on them sux.

Owen.

geoffyboy
23-09-2011, 11:57 PM
I will pm you a link to the manual , noidea..
If anyone else wants one just pm me.




Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

rideo
27-09-2011, 03:51 PM
Stem seals turned up this morning, 20 minutes fitting them then another hr to get it all back in the bike and test run.
Runs like a champ, i will run the 2 230's side by side now and if this one outdoes the missus's 230 then it will get a freshen up too.^tng

Had to go looking for some torque values prior to putting the head back on, during that i came across this pic:
http://www.cyclepedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/crf230_540.jpg

Check the cam chain hanging out, it's clearly a decent fat h/d type chain, wtf is going on here Red1 with our bikes being supplied with chains the size of chainsaw chains?^dunno

noidea
27-09-2011, 03:54 PM
I will pm you a link to the manual , noidea..
If anyone else wants one just pm me.




Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

Have you forgotten me already mate?? ^dunno

RED1
27-09-2011, 05:44 PM
Stem seals turned up this morning, 20 minutes fitting them then another hr to get it all back in the bike and test run.
Runs like a champ, i will run the 2 230's side by side now and if this one outdoes the missus's 230 then it will get a freshen up too.^tng

Had to go looking for some torque values prior to putting the head back on, during that i came across this pic:
http://www.cyclepedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/crf230_540.jpg

Check the cam chain hanging out, it's clearly a decent fat h/d type chain, wtf is going on here Red1 with our bikes being supplied with chains the size of chainsaw chains?^dunno


Tough bikes for a tough country! They cut a lot of trees in Brazil!

I think you need to go here!:tick
http://www.coeshow.com/_mgxroot/page_10761.html

geoffyboy
27-09-2011, 05:50 PM
Have you forgotten me already mate?? ^dunno

Sorry man.
Just having rouble uploading to my host..

Will sort something out today for ya.

rideo
27-09-2011, 07:04 PM
Tough bikes for a tough country! They cut a lot of trees in Brazil!

I think you need to go here!:tick
http://www.coeshow.com/_mgxroot/page_10761.html

As can be seen in a recent vid i put up, the rear end on these things is not real stable, kicking out sideways badly over loose rocks etc that my bike was tracking dead true on.
What's the G O for a uprated rear shock Red, is it cr80 or what?
The front end will do for now, the missus really wants a crf250x now but in the meantime if a rear mx shock can be had on the cheap i may throw one in.

RED1
27-09-2011, 07:24 PM
You can fit pre 91 XR600 with remote reservoir or a brand new trick one!

rideo
27-09-2011, 07:43 PM
You can fit pre 91 XR600 with remote reservoir or a brand new trick one!

How are they for eye to eye length, the same or a bit longer?
What do u mean by a newie, as in a new xr6 shock or a current model something?

crofty
27-09-2011, 07:54 PM
As can be seen in a recent vid i put up, the rear end on these things is not real stable, kicking out sideways badly over loose rocks etc that my bike was tracking dead true on.
What's the G O for a uprated rear shock Red, is it cr80 or what?
The front end will do for now, the missus really wants a crf250x now but in the meantime if a rear mx shock can be had on the cheap i may throw one in.

Didn't the Dogpig do a thread on his crf230 farm bike and suspension upgrades?

rideo
27-09-2011, 08:01 PM
Didn't the Dogpig do a thread on his crf230 farm bike and suspension upgrades?


If i recall,, in the thread i have in mind, [the jetting thread?] suspension mods were mentioned as being available but i don't think PD actually did any of them.
If it's a thread that i havent seen at all then im most interested.

RED1
27-09-2011, 08:58 PM
How are they for eye to eye length, the same or a bit longer?
What do u mean by a newie, as in a new xr6 shock or a current model something?


XR600 is the same eye to eye, the piggy back style won't fit, just need to space the top as it is narrower. You can buy many new better shocks up to $600! 27hp from a 230 is pretty good from Mr Coe!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/-Robbie-/misc234.jpg

http://www.dirtbikeworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=66134&page=3

rideo
27-09-2011, 09:16 PM
XR600 is the same eye to eye, the piggy back style won't fit, just need to space the top as it is narrower. You can buy many new better shocks up to $600! 27hp from a 230 is pretty good from Mr Coe!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/-Robbie-/misc234.jpg

http://www.dirtbikeworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=66134&page=3
Thanks.

27 hp is heaps, hp isnt our issue though as the missus is not using anywhere near all of what the thing offers now, it's an upgrade for better handling we are after.

What would i be looking for if i wanted to spend up to $600 on a newie?

RED1
27-09-2011, 10:55 PM
The works perfomance one seems to be the most popular as they tailor it to the rider before you get it.

http://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/27_63/products_id/1839





Fully SIK CRF280!


fAbaPToTdlc

Kiera
27-09-2011, 11:35 PM
You poor bastard D ^dunno

On a brighter note - Claire owes you big time for going to so much trouble to fix it for her :D

rideo
28-09-2011, 12:32 AM
You poor bastard D ^dunno

On a brighter note - Claire owes you big time for going to so much trouble to fix it for her :D

Hey there's that black eye i give her for riding too slow, that sure did learn her goodnproper ^tng

It's the daughters bike actually K, the one that i just pulled down, but it was C's that i was talking about for the rear shock.

Kiera
28-09-2011, 12:41 AM
Hey there's that black eye i give her for riding too slow, that sure did learn her goodnproper ^tng

It's the daughters bike actually K, the one that i just pulled down, but it was C's that i was talking about for the rear shock.

Re: the pull down - well the favour is connected by blood so....... :rolleyes:

Re: the black eye - just keep hitting her until she gets faster :p

rideo
04-10-2011, 07:20 PM
So Red, is the 150 shock the same dimensions etc as the 230 shock?
I'm asking as the boys new 150f has a really slow rebound on the rear shock and i would like to piss it off for something else that's at least faster with the rebound if not fancier re. adjustability as well, so i'm thinking of how to kill 2 birds by upgrading the 230 and using it's old one on the 150.

Oh yeah, the new rings and stem seals did nothing at all to curb the belching smoke when cold, any ideas? EDit: Seems to be all good now so dunno wtf was going on initially.
Piston looked great although i didn't measure it up, if it was flogged enough to do this you would expect to be hearing a rattle as it went up and down but there's no piston rattle to be heard, even if it was i would expect that new rings would seal it well for a while at least, it;s been ridden enough by me alone to bed in a new set of rings, and i had no drama fitting them matching them to the ones that came off, as in carbon ring to the bottom and the upper ring with bevelled inner edge and stamp mark upwards.
Valve guides were as good as could be expected with fk all movement so they shouldn't be letting it get past the new seals, i didn't think to look at how flat the deck was so that could be a possibility i guess.
It certainly goes a lot harder when warm and i will do the same to the other 230, but it spews a light blue/white smoke for up to 4 minutes until warm when revved and at idle, so it's a bit annoying and will make it impossible to sell one day even though it goes great.

gizmoe
04-10-2011, 09:05 PM
Is it really worth fitting bling to make a 230 a 280?

Why not start with the Xr250 to start with?

Is the 230 smaller?

RED1
04-10-2011, 10:49 PM
Hmmm... the 150 shock and links have different part Nos even though they may look the same, I don't know about dimensions, with the 230 did you check the ring gap with the new rings in the bore? the top ring is a chrome one and the second is cast and black, looks like you put them the right way up, did you hone it ? Valve guides may be loose if you have replaced the seals and there are O rings under the guides.

rideo
04-10-2011, 11:06 PM
Hmmm... the 150 shock and links have different part Nos even though they may look the same, I don't know about dimensions, with the 230 did you check the ring gap with the new rings in the bore? the top ring is a chrome one and the second is cast and black, looks like you put them the right way up, did you hone it ? Valve guides may be loose if you have replaced the seals and there are O rings under the guides.

No didn't check the end gap, didn't get the pdf in time for the spec on it.
Sounds like i got the rings the right way, i was pretty sure i did, if i didn't then the originals had been fitted wrong.
I checked the valves in the guides as i was doing the seals, they felt good^dunno
Seats could have done with a bit of a hand paste/grind but even they shouldn't be causing this oil burning.
How much oil could be getting past new rings in a worn bore, enough to make a ton of smoke?

RED1
05-10-2011, 12:03 AM
No didn't check the end gap, didn't get the pdf in time for the spec on it.
Sounds like i got the rings the right way, i was pretty sure i did, if i didn't then the originals had been fitted wrong.
I checked the valves in the guides as i was doing the seals, they felt good^dunno
Seats could have done with a bit of a hand paste/grind but even they shouldn't be causing this oil burning.
How much oil could be getting past new rings in a worn bore, enough to make a ton of smoke?



If the gaps are out of spec oil could get past or be the bore could be glazed, what I meant with the guides is oil could be getting past the guide where they fit in the head, there is also an O ring on each guide sealing it to the head.

-RinGo-
05-10-2011, 08:13 AM
The works perfomance one seems to be the most popular as they tailor it to the rider before you get it.

http://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/27_63/products_id/1839





Fully SIK CRF280!


fAbaPToTdlc

Indeed. Rear fender was crooked though. ^lol

rideo
05-10-2011, 10:27 AM
If the gaps are out of spec oil could get past or be the bore could be glazed, what I meant with the guides is oil could be getting past the guide where they fit in the head, there is also an O ring on each guide sealing it to the head.


Ahh ok....well that's fkd up right there if that's how it's getting into the bore.
Ol mate down the road has one of them remote inspection gadgets, i'll chuck that in the plug hole and see if there's any sign of oil getting past the valves, if there is i will have to tear the motor out of the bike again^frt

RED1
05-10-2011, 11:18 AM
Sometimes the guide can come loose and oil may get past into the port, it may only happen when the bike is off and it seeps through overnight and then when started you get the smoke until it all burns.

rideo
05-10-2011, 11:48 AM
Sometimes the guide can come loose and oil may get past into the port, it may only happen when the bike is off and it seeps through overnight and then when started you get the smoke until it all burns.

That's what's going on afaict, i just presumed it was either rings or stem seals...the seals did actually have a good fit on the stems so i wasn't happy to see that.
The new rings didn't hurt though as it pulls pretty damn hard now, i could almost be happy with it if i had to be [but it would be flogged to within an inch of its life]:) so the daughter should certainly be happy with its power now.
Is this a new guide job or can they be refitted with a new oring?

RED1
05-10-2011, 12:29 PM
The guides can be replaced and any engine reco place should be able to do it and stop them from moving if they are, the O rings under the guides are a spare part. The other possibilty is that the head may be porous and it is seeping through the casting, this has happened in the past on various models and does take some time to show up, not always from new.

rideo
05-10-2011, 01:35 PM
Thanks mate.
Btw, that saw is friggen excellent, used it for all firewood and trail clearing duties over the last week, didn't pull the big one out at all.
Chains don't take too many sharpenings though before they are gone...tiny teeth on them.
Will make a saw rack for the bike one day to suit it.

RED1
05-10-2011, 01:39 PM
Thanks mate.
Btw, that saw is friggen excellent, used it for all firewood and trail clearing duties over the last week, didn't pull the big one out at all.
Chains don't take too many sharpenings though before they are gone...tiny teeth on them.
Will make a saw rack for the bike one day to suit it.



The chains they put on are small tooth anti kickback as they are aimed at home owners who don't know much, safety, safety, I fit different ones as a replacement with bigger teeth, drawback can be power loss due to more cutting area.

Kiera
06-10-2011, 10:10 PM
While you are at it, you might as well change the clutch plates...:rr

Once apon a time an exceptionally lovely lady let me ride her 230 for the day so I could ride Batemans with Amber while she baby sat our son. I had an absolute ball on it, however I fried the clutch on the poor little thing. So we went to the trouble of obtaining a replacement clutch kit so she could ride it the next day, only to find that the clutch is installed arse about, inside out and there may have even been a special tool required. It was all very confusing and in the end Longo and I gave up in disgust and decided to drink more beer instead.
They look so simple from the outside...

Owen.

Once apon a time an exceptionally lovely lady let me ride her 230 for the day...... Thanks Owen. ;)

Remember how Amber's 200 blew up? When my clutch baked, we just had to get it going otherwise we would have been a bike too short! You should have been in the car for the low level flying trip I did to pick the clutch up from Wollongong :eek: I never drive fast but that night........ Well, I think I shaved about half an hour off that trip each way - had Longo's Patrol flat to the boards. Dunno what happened from all the photos from that trip.

It was that NSW trip that I had a ride on Becky's 250 which sealed the deal for me wanting to upgrade from my 230. It served me well but I don't think I even got on it again after I decided to sell it and buy the WR250.